Stolen Maps
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http://www.nibbits.com/sc/maps/view/125079/
Map is stolen and should be removed immediately. I encourage others to post other stolen maps here.
The concept of the site promotes an open mapping community, and being that maps in themselves are open source, people can edit them.
Even if we were to remove maps on here that had been edited, they would just upload them other places, or even just host them on battle.net to get them spread. Beyond that, sometimes the newer, edited versions of maps are actually a huge improvement over older maps.
So, Nibbits standing, as of right now, is that we will not remove maps for this reason specifically (in fact we rarely ever remove maps). It's up to the community to decide if the map deserves its place, so in that extent, we may put a system in place to help bury such maps from popular results.
That is fucking bullshit. Open mapping has nothing to do with it. This was a protected, closed source map by choice of the creator, and not only was his map unprotected but his name was taken completely off it. How dare you disrespect not only the map makers, who are the reason this site prospers by the why, but one as respected as Peazel.
Thus is the life of the internet.
uh... lets add a bit of reality here.
it's not anyone's job to make maps. we don't get paid for this, we don't get much recognition for it, and if the above is someone's goal for making maps then they're totally in the wrong mindset for it. that's not based on opinion either, that's straight fact...
I make maps for the pure enjoyment of playing on something I created, with or without others. If, for some reason, someone were to take my map and edit it, change it's name and lay claim to it's creation... well hell if it were that good I'll take it as a complement that I did something worth "stealing". Considering I wasn't the one that made SC, or SCEdit... can I really say it was 'mine' to begin with? IMO, no.
Cussing at someone that's sole goal is to provide a place to share, discuss and create new maps for fun out of their own pocket... that's worse than those you claim are stealing maps.
sit back, relax and get over it... it's only a game.
Every decision a person makes stems from the person's values and goals. People can have many different goals and values; fame, profit, love, survival, fun, and freedom, are just some of the goals that a good person might have." Richard Stollman (full text: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/pragmatic.html)
Mappers dont get paid for mapping, but they do get recognition of the rest of the community.
Otaku108, you "make maps for pure enjoyment", others could have their own motivations. Mapmaking is kind of a modern art. Mapmaker is a painter who paints the picture. The painter is not the author of the tools he is using during the painting process (brush, paper and inks), but still he *is* the authour of the final result.
Probably we dont have legal rights because Blizzard Licence Agreement proclaims:
"This software program (the "Program"), any printed materials, any on-line or electronic documentation, and any and all copies and derivative works of such software program and materials are the copyrighted work of Blizzard Entertainment, a division of Davidson & Associates, Inc., or its suppliers.
Copyright © 1997 Blizzard Entertainment. All Rights Reserved."
But still common sense promotes mapmakers should be considered as authors of their maps at by the community of players and mapmakers.
"The concept of the site promotes an open mapping community, and being that maps in themselves are open source, people can edit them." dcramer
Sure thing, but people must mention authors of the previous work. Open mapping doesn't mean we can behave basely.
The thing I'm agree with dcramer is that "even if we were to remove maps on here that had been edited, they would just upload them other places, or even just host them on battle.net to get them spread". In my opinion hosting on battle.net is the most effective way to spread the map, thus dening the map existance and removing it from here would change little. Noone would even know it was stolen.
I propose another solution. To my mind the most effective way to fight against map stealers is to bring truth to everyone's notice. Dcramer, it would be a good idea to place a clearly visible notice on the download page which claims that "this map is known to be stolen", provide the link to the original map and to the discussion thread. The best way to fight map stealers is to submit the stealer to everyone's view.
A very simple solution that would go a long way is to include an "author" attribute to each map.
Why?
1) If you have two similar maps, identical map title, two different authors - you can meaningfully distinguish between the two. Without an author attribute this is not possible. (This happens more often than you think.)
2) If you suspect a map is "stolen" in the sense commonly used in the mapmaking community, you can verify via the author field.
3) By being able to find all maps by a particular author, you can identify an author you like - so it serves an additional purpose as a recommendation list.
The solution is simple, the implementation is obscure.
As I understand, the nuts of the nibbits database is an automatic map discovering. The problem is how could one automatically find an author name in the map? There is no predefined filed for the author(s) name in the map itself.
The second problem is how to verify the author.
But with some well-known maps it should be verified, because some people know authors. For example, I tend to believe Excalibur that the map original author is Peazel. Some common sense should be used.
Well, actually having the author field is a sensible idea. Probably allow humans to fill that field. In my opinion having tags with author names is... not convenient.
As I understand, the nuts of the nibbits database is an automatic map discovering. The problem is how could one automatically find an author name in the map? There is no predefined filed for the author(s) name in the map itself."
You don't automatically do it.
Uploader adds the information. If it's wrong, community raises a red flag and it goes to moderation.
Is that asking for too much?
You are asking for the impossible. There is little to no way to determine whether or not a map has been "stolen" and frankly I don't even believe that such a concept can be placed on a map.
Yes, it's not right to claim someone else's work as your own. That I can agree with and understand, but frankly there's no point in getting upset at someone just trying to provide a space for us.
If it's so important to people to lay claim to their work then let them police it. If a map can be point out as stolen then just post a comment about it as has already been done in the case above.
Cussing at dcramer was childish and idiotic. Like a kid throwing a tantrum when he didn't get his way.
The only thing I can agree with in your statement is that a new field of "author" should be added, and leave it up to the community to decide who is the real creator if it's so important to you.
Asking someone to police such a thing is ridiculously unreasonable. How is he to know who is right and who is wrong? Just because a few people say so? It's all hearsay... he says vs she says almost.
I say live and let live, move on, grow up, and get over it. IT. IS. ONLY. A. GAME.
I think a wiki approach to some of the map details, this includes tags/labels, could actually be ideal for this.
This would allow handling of adding authors (to StarCraft), as well as some other attributes.
While this eliminates one problem, this stil leaves us with authorship. I agree that it'd be nice to say "This map is based on this map", but how can we approach that problem with a viable solution?
We can leave it up to the community (which I'm glad to see is in on this!) to "report" these things, and when something gets enough of this kind of attention, we say "This map has been reported as being based off of X". I don't want to use the word stolen, because quite frankly, a lot of people don't mind, and even more so, don't understand this concept.
Many people, just want to improve upon a map.
So if we take this approach we can do a few things...
Reports:
- Inappropriate; stupid maps like the nudity ones
- Not Original Author; not sure what we'd call this, but then it'd require you to link (and only on Nibbits to prevent spam) to the map which is the original creation.
- <insert more here>
Wiki-like editing:
- Description/map name
- Author (however, this is an issue.. I dont want people changing the author to be the original author, if he's not the one who had been editing it).
- Tags/labels
On that note I plan to implement enhanced functionality across the site. Specifically in places like the forums.
I have a newer version of what I'm using but it doesn't allow Anonymous posting. I'm going to slowly merge in the changes, so you should see some more options opening up in the next few days (pending I have time).
This includes: subforums, categories, editing/deleting of posts, and "has read" status.
I've placed the answer in another thread: http://www.nibbits.com/sc/forums/6/view/59/#comment_2829
The answer is beginning with:
"I think Wiki approach is the best.
How I see the solution: The wiki-like field named "authors" should contain those and only those authors which are specified in the map itself...
RE: Wiki-like editing
"Description/map name"
"Author (however, this is an issue.. I dont want people changing the author to be the original author, if he's not the one who had been editing it)."
I'd exercise caution wiki-fying these two areas since the person uploading it almost always has the best information about these two fields.
That, and you don't want to run the risk of community confusion when highly visible attributes such as title/author are frequently changed.
"Tags/labels"
Perfectly fine to have the community wiki-edit these.
I'd exercise caution wiki-fying these two areas since the person uploading it almost always has the best information about these two fields." azala
Sometimes the uploader doesnt want/have time/bother to fill this.
"That, and you don't want to run the risk of community confusion when highly visible attributes such as title/author are frequently changed." azala
If anything is getting frequently and inappropriately changed the filed could be locked and discussion thread opened.
Edit: furthermore, what if the map has got no uploader (was discovered by the engine)?
If you're going to take a wiki approach will there be a history page that lists the changes made for each file?
If you're going to take a wiki approach will there be a history page that lists the changes made for each file?" devilesk
+1, the history page is a must!
@wormer
"If anything is getting frequently and inappropriately changed the filed could be locked and discussion thread opened. "
Which is fine.
(Which is why I said "exercise caution" rather than "absolutely cannot" - merely pointing out a potential problem.)
http://www.nibbits.com/sc/maps/view/125079/
Is still stolen and is still showing up on the first page under the UMS filter.
Can we please get something done about this?
The logical conclusion from reading dcramer's posts in the thread is that the map won't get deleted.
The next best option is to wreck the fake map's credibility. I would:
1) Give the fake map a low rating.
2) Upload the real map and set the author field of the real map to the real author's name.
3) Put a link to the real map in the comments page of the fake.
I think what we'll do for "copied maps" is just have a flag that says "this map is based on this map".
Because we promote an open mapping community, I feel that it's important for people to be editing and improving on other maps. However, I don't like that people keep the same names and don't give credit.